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Author Topic: What Happened to Gerry Matatics?  (Read 3074 times)

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Offline fatimarevelation23

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What Happened to Gerry Matatics?
« on: January 10, 2024, 09:17:51 AM »
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    • I remember Gerry being active in Catholic debates and speaking at one time. He had a following. I have not seen or heard about him in a long time. I was wondering what happened to him? 

    This was the latest update I read on Reddit concerning him:



    As of 2021, Matatics ended up concluding that none of the bishops we see around us are real bishops. Their ordinations didn’t “take.” He admitted there might be a few true bishops still living in extreme old age — men who had been ordained by Pius XII. Only those bishops could ordain priests validly — but where to find such priests? Where to find a valid Mass? Not even within the Traditionalist movement, he said.

    In the end, Matatics ceased attending Mass. He led prayer services in his home, cobbling together the rosary, elements of the old breviary, and selections from works of Catholic history and theology. A few years ago one of his children married — in a hotel room rather than in a church, with Matatics presiding at the service. It was the culmination of a rigorous “logic.”
     
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    If somebody wants to shoot me from a window with a rifle, Nobody can stop it, so why worry about it? - John F. Kennedy, The Morning of November 22nd, 1963.

    Offline Gunter

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    Re: What Happened to Gerry Matatics?
    « Reply #1 on: January 10, 2024, 09:29:13 AM »
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    • That's unfortunate
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    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: What Happened to Gerry Matatics?
    « Reply #2 on: January 10, 2024, 09:37:23 AM »
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    • I think he also constructed some kind of logical framework in which appeals to an emergency, crisis, epikeia, and so on, cannot be invoked for one reason or another.  Therefore, even if a traditionally-ordained priest would say a Mass, we could not assist at it, because it doesn't exist within the authority and jurisdiction of the Church.  I don't know what he would say about receiving Extreme Unction from such a priest.  The Church removes any legal obstacles to a priest conferring sacraments when someone is in danger of death, so again, I just don't know.

    He has basically become a home-aloner.  Sad.  
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    Offline PAT317

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    Re: What Happened to Gerry Matatics?
    « Reply #3 on: January 10, 2024, 09:47:33 AM »
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    • Quote from: SimpleMan on January 10, 2024, 09:37:23 AM
    I don't know what he would say about receiving Extreme Unction from such a priest.  The Church removes any legal obstacles to a priest conferring sacraments when someone is in danger of death, so again, I just don't know.

    He has basically become a home-aloner.  Sad. 

    When his wife died, I heard that he didn't seek Sacraments from a priest for her. Mentioned in this thread. I'd be glad to hear that information was wrong.  
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: What Happened to Gerry Matatics?
    « Reply #4 on: January 10, 2024, 09:57:07 AM »
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    • Quote
    I think he also constructed some kind of logical framework in which appeals to an emergency, crisis, epikeia, and so on, cannot be invoked for one reason or another.  Therefore, even if a traditionally-ordained priest would say a Mass, we could not assist at it, because it doesn't exist within the authority and jurisdiction of the Church.
    I went to many of his conferences, early on.  Talented guy.  Hate to say it but it's possible that such a man was in infiltrator, just trying to divide Traditionalism from within.  Who knows how many people became 'home aloners' (i.e. gave up the Faith) because of his "intellectual" arguments.

    Or...his pride got the better of him and he entered the 'vortex of confusion' that St Augustine talks about, when trying to understand salvation (or the current crisis).

    Either way, the guy has not been "right in the head" for many years. 
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    Offline TheRealMcCoy

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    Re: What Happened to Gerry Matatics?
    « Reply #5 on: January 10, 2024, 10:10:38 AM »
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    • This is one of the saddest stories ever.  I wonder how many other Catholic intellectuals fell into this trap?

    I count being simple-minded among my blessings.  I recall many years ago being challenged on why I did not declare the SV position and I said "I haven't been given that grace."
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    Offline Angelus

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    Re: What Happened to Gerry Matatics?
    « Reply #6 on: January 10, 2024, 10:24:02 AM »
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    • Quote from: fatimarevelation23 on January 10, 2024, 09:17:51 AM
    I remember Gerry being active in Catholic debates and speaking at one time. He had a following. I have not seen or heard about him in a long time. I was wondering what happened to him?

    This was the latest update I read on Reddit concerning him:



    As of 2021, Matatics ended up concluding that none of the bishops we see around us are real bishops. Their ordinations didn’t “take.” He admitted there might be a few true bishops still living in extreme old age — men who had been ordained by Pius XII. Only those bishops could ordain priests validly — but where to find such priests? Where to find a valid Mass? Not even within the Traditionalist movement, he said.

    In the end, Matatics ceased attending Mass. He led prayer services in his home, cobbling together the rosary, elements of the old breviary, and selections from works of Catholic history and theology. A few years ago one of his children married — in a hotel room rather than in a church, with Matatics presiding at the service. It was the culmination of a rigorous “logic.”
     

    His error was not his decision to use "rigorous logic." His error was in his false premise that "only those bishops [consecrated before a certain date] could ordain priests validly."

    Any traditionally-ordained Catholic priest who is later consecrated in the traditional Rite of Episcopal Consecration can "validly ordain" a true Catholic priest. Even a validly-consecrated heretic or schismatic bishop can do that validly ordain a priest if he uses proper matter, form, and intention. 

    Matatics is mixing up licity and validity with regard to the Sacraments.
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    Offline Ascetik

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    Re: What Happened to Gerry Matatics?
    « Reply #7 on: January 10, 2024, 10:43:30 AM »
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    • I went to one of his conferences once back in 2005-2006 maybe, I thought he was extreme then, he became even more extreme later, and all of the friends who went with me, who were also traditionalists, ended up walking out of his conference about 15 minutes in.

    As Angelus said, his understanding of liceity and validity were extremely warped. I remember just being astounded at his level of hubrisly assured opinions of himself and his position. It seemed to lack humility and the circuмspection that God is in control of His Church and will not leave us orphans, regardless of the crisis.

    To me he lacked faith in God's love and mercy and protection and instead relied on his own logic and understanding of the complex topics of the Church reserved for the moralists and theologians and saints.

    I will never understand the home-aloner position, and I have no sympathy for it.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: What Happened to Gerry Matatics?
    « Reply #8 on: January 10, 2024, 10:52:31 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on January 10, 2024, 09:57:07 AM
    Hate to say it but it's possible that such a man was in infiltrator, just trying to divide Traditionalism from within.

    I doubt it.  Infiltrators seek to do maximum damage, and that objective is not served by hiding away somewhere and preaching on Facebook to about 30-40 people.  If he were an infiltrator, he'd be getting out there.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: What Happened to Gerry Matatics?
    « Reply #9 on: January 10, 2024, 10:55:54 AM »
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    • Yes, he's combined the Siscoe & Salza nonsense about mission / jurisdiction / authority with sedevacantism.  I don't understand why common sense does not break through his "logic".

    When I was a dogmatic SV with Bishop Sanborn, at one point I contemplated leaving because of what I felt were compromises he was making ... at which point I ran into the stark realization that, if I took the dogmatic SV "logic" to its extremes, I would have been practically the only Catholic left in the world (and even I wouldn't probably qualify).  Basic common sense told me that this was absurd and that somewhere along the way my "logic" was faulty.  I didn't know what or where yet, but this "ad absurdum" was enough to snap me out of it.  Evidently the common sense factor hasn't snapped Gerry out of it, and that can often be the case with intellectual types who view the world in syllogisms (as I have a tendency to do myself).

    Certain people's brains work differently.  I have a daughter who associates numbers and letters with colors.  People who are into music might view everything as music, mathematicians as math.  I tend to view everything as syllogisms, from the standpoint of logic, having zero artistic aptitude.  I suspect that Gerry is the same way.
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    Offline TheRealMcCoy

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    Re: What Happened to Gerry Matatics?
    « Reply #10 on: January 10, 2024, 11:47:01 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on January 10, 2024, 10:52:31 AM
    I doubt it.  Infiltrators seek to do maximum damage, and that objective is not served by hiding away somewhere and preaching on Facebook to about 30-40 people.  If he were an infiltrator, he'd be getting out there.
    This.  I was listening to a conference recently given by someone connected with the British Royal Family on the topic of a certain person possibly being a "plant" to take down the monarchy.  The answer was that the individual in question did not have the connections or influence to be an infiltraitor.
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    Offline Twice dyed

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    Re: What Happened to Gerry Matatics?
    « Reply #11 on: January 10, 2024, 06:22:44 PM »
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    • "Nobody can think straight who does not work. Idleness warps the mind. Thinking without constructive action becomes a disease." Henry Ford.  Gerry was a VERY fast talker. I just listened to him twice. But he certainly articulated an abundance of ideas. He needs prayers +:pray:
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    La mesure de l'amour, c'est d'aimer sans mesure.
    The measure of love is to love without measure.
                                     St. Augustine (354 - 430 AD)

    Offline TheRealMcCoy

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    Re: What Happened to Gerry Matatics?
    « Reply #12 on: January 10, 2024, 06:31:39 PM »
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    • Quote from: Twice dyed on January 10, 2024, 06:22:44 PM
    "Nobody can think straight who does not work. Idleness warps the mind. Thinking without constructive action becomes a disease." Henry Ford.  Gerry was a VERY fast talker. I just listened to him twice. But he certainly articulated an abundance of ideas. He needs prayers +:pray:
    Are you saying that he was unemployed?
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    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: What Happened to Gerry Matatics?
    « Reply #13 on: January 10, 2024, 06:55:59 PM »
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    • Quote from: Angelus on January 10, 2024, 10:24:02 AM
    Matatics is mixing up liceity and validity with regard to the Sacraments.
    Not only that, he is completely confused about liceity.
    It is at the level of common sense, as Ladislaus says, but all the principles have been established by the Church - you can use rigorous logic to arrive at the necessary conclusion.
    The supreme law of the Church is the salvation of souls.
    The Church's Canon Law anticipates situations where the letter of the law may work against the spirit and purpose of the law.
    Supplied jurisdiction is real jurisdiction.
    As St Thomas says, in times of necessity there is no law!
    A state of necessity justifies the law of necessity which justifies all means necessary to continue the mission of the Church.
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    Offline Twice dyed

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    Re: What Happened to Gerry Matatics?
    « Reply #14 on: January 11, 2024, 11:35:55 AM »
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    • Quote from: TheRealMcCoy on January 10, 2024, 06:31:39 PM
    Are you saying that he was unemployed?
    No. I wasn't using that perspective. I don't know what he did or what he does for a living. My point is so many intellectuals exagerate their philosophy, and are not tuned in the REAL World. Take EQUALITY for example...False principle, as + Lefebvre said. This principle is  corrupting the entire world. We have 'intellectual' leaders fixed upon this error. Then springs forth Feminism= kids are nor brought uo with love and guidance 'cause Mommy is working outside the home. And again, Reignbow agenda, Children's rights, even prisoners claim the right to vote etc. Now in Canada our 'intellectuals' are busy introducing bills in parliament to allow children access to MAID, (MEDICAL ASSISTANCE IN DYING )! So from this perspective, Thinking becomes a disease. The quick antidote to most of these issues is simply to ask oneself: 'How does God see this?'
    Nice chatting...gotta go WORK now. ;)
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    La mesure de l'amour, c'est d'aimer sans mesure.
    The measure of love is to love without measure.
                                     St. Augustine (354 - 430 AD)
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