Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Valid Popes Since Pius XII  (Read 2462 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TuAmigo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
  • Reputation: +4/-1
  • Gender: Male
Valid Popes Since Pius XII
« on: September 23, 2024, 12:21:26 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I'm unsure if there's agreement amongst sedevacantists on papal elections.

    Are the papal elections after Pius XII (John 23rd through Francis) considered valid initially, then, the person in office loses their authority and office once they say or do something heretical?  Or are the elections considered invalid entirely?  If the latter, can you help me understand why exactly the elections were invalid?

    Offline Yeti

    • Supporter
    • ****
    • Posts: 3840
    • Reputation: +2255/-502
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Valid Popes Since Pius XII
    « Reply #1 on: September 23, 2024, 08:44:03 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Some people think John 23rd was valid, but most don't.

    Originally, many sedevacantists used the argument that those people lost their office due to public heresy. But in recent years Fr. Cekada has been arguing that their elections themselves were invalid due to their heresy.

    Canon law requires that a pope be Catholic in order for the election to be valid. But it's obvious that these people were not Catholic before their election. (The reason it's obvious is that, if you do think they were Catholic before their election, then you are saying that election to the papacy turned them from Catholics into raging heretics, which is impossible and absurd).


    Offline Giovanni Berto

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1046
    • Reputation: +867/-48
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Valid Popes Since Pius XII
    « Reply #2 on: September 23, 2024, 08:53:38 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • If a heretic, any heretic lose office due to heresy, what about all the heretic bishops who made Vatican II possible? Was there actually "diocesan sedevacantism" before Vatican II?

    I am not saying that I disagree with the Sedevacantism theory, but I have never seem these broader questions addressed.

    For instance, we all know that John XXIII was Patriach of Venice before being elected to the papacy. Were all his acts as a diocesan bishop invalid? He was accused of heresy long before being nominated to the See of Venice.

    Offline brogan

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 22
    • Reputation: +34/-1
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Valid Popes Since Pius XII
    « Reply #3 on: September 30, 2024, 09:49:07 AM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
  • If the entire college of Cardinals voted unanimously to elect the Dalai Lama as the next pope, it would be invalid because the Dalai Lama is not Catholic.

    Francis was never pope because he was not Catholic at the time of his election.

    Offline Godefroy

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 414
    • Reputation: +462/-45
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Valid Popes Since Pius XII
    « Reply #4 on: October 01, 2024, 03:58:21 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  •  He was accused of heresy long before being nominated to the See of Venice.
    Would you have any further information on this?


    Offline Giovanni Berto

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1046
    • Reputation: +867/-48
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Valid Popes Since Pius XII
    « Reply #5 on: October 01, 2024, 09:41:32 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Would you have any further information on this?

    I had to do some digging and found this interesting book by a CMRI priest.

    https://archive.org/details/WhatHasHappenedToTheCathoRadeckiFr.FranciscoCMRI5025


    Quote
    June 1, 1914, Angelo Roncalli visited Rome with the Seminary rector of Bergamo. Cardinal Giuseppe De Lai, who was the secretary of the Consistorial Congregation, suspected Roncalli of being a Modernist, began a background check on him and kept his activities under close watch.

    1921, One of Roncalli’s closest friends in the seminary was Ernesto Buonaiuti who assisted Fr. Roncalli at his first Mass in 1904. Buonaiuti was excommunicated in 1921 and again in 1924. He was declared vitandus in 1926. (The term vitandus means that the pope personally expelled him from the Catholic Church.)

    1924, Roncalli was given a teaching position at the Lateran University until he was suspected of Modernism. He was thereupon relieved of his post. For the remainder of the year, Roncalli fulfilled tasks of minor importance at the Vatican but was closely watched. The Modernist label given to Roncalli, carried with him for the remainder of his life.

    1958, “Shortly after he had become Pope. . . Roncalli visited a certain Congregation’s office and asked for his personal file. He said that he wanted to find out why a routine promotion had been so long delayed. Looking back to those early years he found against his name the damning words: ‘suspected of Modernism’.


    Offline Mikey

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 9
    • Reputation: +4/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Valid Popes Since Pius XII
    « Reply #6 on: October 06, 2024, 06:27:12 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Roncalli and Montini were also inducted into Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ before being elected Pope.