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Author Topic: Doubtful Validity of Sacraments Outside Tradition  (Read 2146 times)

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Offline Johannes

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Re: Doubtful Validity of Sacraments Outside Tradition
« Reply #90 on: Yesterday at 02:24:35 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on Yesterday at 01:57:11 PM
    You do presume to have authority here. You have been a forum member....for what....13 days or so? And you are presuming already to tell us what we are supposed to believe, as if you have authority here. But you do not.
    I will give you this last piece of free and unsolicited advice that I know you may not want, but may prove helpful to you;

    I have been reading on this forum for over 6-months and remained silent - not a peep. Length of time, thumbs up, number of posts - means absolutely NOTHING. This is a place for knowledge sharing and debate - not a knitting club.

    Neither You, nor me, nor anyone here has any "authority" over others in this virtual space and only one's Confessor and themselves has authority over their own internal forum.

    The members of this forum are not some kind of council of "hallowed elders". We are all in the same boat more-or-less. You may think that new members should take a backseat and let you drive, but some of us have real questions and want to engage with others (you generally do not seem to be that type to me from what I have observed). You troll and gang up when someone bigger than you start kicking the guy who is down. Your trigger is anyone telling you what to do. Your skin is as soft as the fresh-driven snow in that regard. This I wager is because you are insecure, which is understandable. 

    You may choose to think or feel that I am presuming to have authority - go ahead and argue it to the high heavens, shout it from the rooftops, hold it to your dying breath - makes no difference to me. Or, come after me by addressing my question(s) and arguments. If you won't do that - I refuse to speak to you anymore - Go ahead, you can have the last word. 

    I truly hope God fills you with His choicest blesses and I mean that prayers for you now.
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    Offline Johannes

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    Re: Doubtful Validity of Sacraments Outside Tradition
    « Reply #91 on: Yesterday at 02:32:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on Yesterday at 02:04:20 PM
    The part about "unimpaired by any error" is talking about the pope when he speaks ex cathedra.
    The pope speaks ex cathedra much more than you would like to admit. He speaks "from the chair" whenever he acts as teacher for all Christians. R&R commonly conflates ex cathedra with "solemn definition". I know we could go in circles over this point ad nauseum - so I am happy to let it go at - agree to disagree.

    Do you think Francis is Catholic?
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Doubtful Validity of Sacraments Outside Tradition
    « Reply #92 on: Yesterday at 02:45:03 PM »
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    • Quote from: Johannes on Yesterday at 02:24:35 PM
    You may choose to think or feel that I am presuming to have authority - go ahead and argue it to the high heavens, shout it from the rooftops, hold it to your dying breath - makes no difference to me. Or, come after me by addressing my question(s) and arguments. If you won't do that - I refuse to speak to you anymore - Go ahead, you can have the last word. 

    It's an over-reaction to think that I want to shout it from the rooftops, or to hold it to my dying breath. What an odd thing to say. 

    You cloak your "questions" with an air of charity which you obviously do not really have. Your arrogance betrays you. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Doubtful Validity of Sacraments Outside Tradition
    « Reply #93 on: Yesterday at 02:46:21 PM »
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    • Quote from: Johannes on Yesterday at 02:32:50 PM
    The pope speaks ex cathedra much more than you would like to admit. He speaks "from the chair" whenever he acts as teacher for all Christians. R&R commonly conflates ex cathedra with "solemn definition". I know we could go in circles over this point ad nauseum - so I am happy to let it go at - agree to disagree.

    Do you think Francis is Catholic?
    No need to go in circles if we simply adhere to the infallible definition V1 gave us, i.e. the pope is in fallible when he defines a doctrine ex cathedra. They prefaced that by saying he is not infallible when he makes known new doctrines. New doctrines = heresies. V1 never said popes would not be able to make known new doctrines.

    I do not think the pope is Catholic, I think he is an anti-Catholic heretic. And I profess that (to paraphrase St. Thomas More)....I remain the pope's good subject, but God's first.
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Johannes

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    Re: Doubtful Validity of Sacraments Outside Tradition
    « Reply #94 on: Yesterday at 03:01:42 PM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on Yesterday at 02:46:21 PM
    No need to go in circles if we simply adhere to the infallible definition V1 gave us, i.e. the pope is in fallible when he defines a doctrine ex cathedra. They prefaced that by saying he is not infallible when he makes known new doctrines. New doctrines = heresies. V1 never said popes would not be able to make known new doctrines.

    I do not think the pope is Catholic, I think he is an anti-Catholic heretic. And I profess that (to paraphrase St. Thomas More)....I remain the pope's good subject, but God's first.
    I consider ^^ this to be a twisting/misreading of Papal Infallibility. Some competent theologians argue otherwise than you have about the pope being able to teach heresy for the Universal Church (I know you are aware these theologians exist, everyone who is a vocal member here is) You may feel the need to defend you interpretation of Papal Infallibility as the correct one for the 1000th time - go ahead - we have all heard it before - the impasse remains - the problem cannot be overcame with argumentation - better minds than ours have tried.

    So, we as I said, we will have to agree to disagree because we cannot agree, and we are at an impasse. That's OK with me, I don't need everyone to think like I do, I don't need to impose my understanding of things on others as dogma. I have made my arguments against the presumed validity of N.O. baptisms and trad priests who were baptized in the N.O. - that is my position. You have explained why you follow the SSPX in deciding these things - that is your choice, and you have the responsibility to make that choice for yourself during this time. I choose not to trust those judgments, unless someone can sway my mind with better arguments. I still consider you a Catholic (for what that is worth) and I am thankful for your contribution to this thread. 


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    Offline Johannes

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    Re: Doubtful Validity of Sacraments Outside Tradition
    « Reply #95 on: Yesterday at 03:03:10 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on Yesterday at 02:45:03 PM
    It's an over-reaction to think that I want to shout it from the rooftops, or to hold it to my dying breath. What an odd thing to say.

    You cloak your "questions" with an air of charity which you obviously do not really have. Your arrogance betrays you.
    You are 100% correct I have very little charity - please pray for me. Thank you
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