Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Grifters  (Read 556 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Matthew

  • Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 32478
  • Reputation: +28702/-565
  • Gender: Male
Grifters
« on: April 24, 2025, 12:56:43 PM »
  • Thanks!4
  • No Thanks!0
  • Grifters are a lot like social media "influencers".

    There is a complete lack of correlation between ability/training/skill/qualifications and success/fame/money.
    Even more so than in the "unfair World" in general. There has always been unfairness in the world, when it comes to fame, success, wealth, etc.

    But Social Media has turned that up to 11.

    Why should some idiot 12-year old girl make huge money, leading astray 3 million followers on youtube? My 12 year old daughter is better in every way, especially morally. She is better educated, and most importantly she has her purity and Fear of the Lord. Why does the world award fame and wealth to degenerate whores, instead of good and virtuous people of the same age and superior education? Goes to show you how messed up the World is.

    But when it comes to Traditional Catholic grifters, there's another level to it. Because as I see it, if you wanted to live by the Gospel, (make that your living, your full-time job) you should have become a priest!

    This hits close to home for me, and I'm qualified to talk about this, because the priesthood was actually my first choice of vocation. I never "quit"; I was dismissed. But I accepted that as God's permissive will. And I didn't feel called to become an Indulter or Sedevacantist, so my quest for the priesthood ended there, much to my disappointment at the time. I also had just enough wisdom at the time to know that some men seek the priesthood "at any cost" like a lion pursuing a gazelle. They go from group to group, increasingly dubious and shady, until some bishop ordains them. And I knew that wasn't for me as well. I wasn't going to make my own will into God's will, and play make-believe.

    But I digress.

    In the Catholic world, laymen are not pre-eminent. Maybe unless they have a Doctorate or high education, they could teach some specific subject -- but always subordinate to a Trad priest or bishop. Or with a much lesser education (say, a few years at a Trad seminary, and/or reading a lot of books), they could teach laymen at a popular level (volunteering at Church, etc.) But the Catholic world is SO FAR from the protestant world.

    I maintain a chapel on my property. But without an ordained, trained PRIEST, it's pretty useless. If I were protestant (God forbid!), I could totally put up a sign and try to get a little church going. We could study the Bible, meet once a week, I could give some decent sermons  or conferences (by protestant standards), etc. But I'm not protestant, so that is obviously ridiculous.

    As someone who has studied for the priesthood, and read many Catholic saints' writings on the priesthood, I know how different my life is now, compared to seminary life. If you're going to be a priest, working to convert souls, you need to have FULL FREE TIME to pray and study the Faith. It's not just a full time job, it's a 24/7 on-call job. It has to be your job AND YOUR LIFE. Even your free time needs to be spent preparing (praying, studying, thinking) for your next "shift". Not to mention preaching and talking to people, trying to convert souls, visiting the poor, sick, prisoners, etc.

    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com

    Offline Giovanni Berto

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1261
    • Reputation: +1023/-78
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Grifters
    « Reply #1 on: April 24, 2025, 01:09:17 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • As I see it, there's a special kind of malice to profit from the faith.

    I cringe when I see people making aggressive advertising for Catholic books. Some will even put some fear into you, like "you need to read this book to know how to raise your children properly, you will only get one chance to do it right".

    A special caution is needed to sell religious art, books, etc.


    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 32478
    • Reputation: +28702/-565
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Grifters
    « Reply #2 on: April 24, 2025, 01:25:32 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • I forgot to add to my original post --

    Besides VOLUNTEER or low-key, low-cost teaching, I would also include any kind of good or service in the list of "things it's perfectly proper for laymen to do for the Faith"

    For example, if you publish Catholic books, you're making and providing books. You are laboring and earning a living by the work of your hands. Priests don't have time to run a book publishing business. Same for altars, artwork, statues, rosaries, Church supplies and equipment, and dozens of other things. If you're MAKING SOMETHING and selling it to Catholics, of course laymen are the 1st choice for doing that. Not just acceptable, but actually the 1st choice.

    Long story short, if you're a layman making money because the Catholic Faith exists, it better be because you're doing something with your mind and/or hands -- some kind of labor. Not just because you're "you", and that you hold some kind of lofty, exalted, respected position, such that people revere the words that fall from your lips -- like a priest.

    Even digital things would qualify as labor: e-book publishing, media collections or conversions, phone apps, software, webhosting, etc. Priests aren't to be spending time keeping up with languages/libraries/trends in the software dev world -- that's a full time job. It's hard enough to stay a useful software developer as a layman doing it for your full-time career. Trying to engage in such constant study to stay up to date would be detrimental for the vocation of a priest or religious.

    Also note that anything "Catholic" laymen made money off of, had to be more or less approved by the Church. Laymen were always under the authority of the Church in this regard. See: Imprimatur, Nihil obstat.
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com

    Offline Everlast22

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 749
    • Reputation: +634/-140
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Grifters
    « Reply #3 on: April 24, 2025, 01:27:45 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • This is interesting. The grifting quite possibly start from good intentions, but when the Jew-tube bucks start rolling in, complete truth will eventually be compromised. Or at least that's how I see it. 


    Offline LaramieHirsch

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2736
    • Reputation: +963/-248
    • Gender: Male
      • h
    Re: Grifters
    « Reply #4 on: April 24, 2025, 01:39:58 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • I had several opportunities to expand and become a bigger thing. I backed out, though.

    To write or be online fifteen years ago was "safe." "It's the internet! A big social place where we all get together and talk and share ideas and opinions! Say what you want!" But now, to write or be public--there are stakes. There are things to lose. To be a public speaker isn't simply a conversation anymore, but an act of warfare on some level. When Kyle Seraphim came out a couple of years ago to tell us the feds were targeting Trad Caths, I closed up shop. Cultural warfare wasn't something I signed up for when I eased into blogging. It was always an outlet--purposeful, but nothing more--unless I crossed over a line and tried to make it a thing. But my real life was advancing, and focusing on me and mine takes priority over "a cause."

    A lot of commentators don't have any other skill set, and that's a scary place to be in my opinion. Barnhardt, for example, lives off of donations. (I think. At least, that's what I gather from what she says about it.) I couldn't bring myself to do that. My kids are proud that I was a public writer and sort of wish I was doing it again, but my priority is raising them. 

    Plus, bein' the prescient sort that I am, I knew that there would be and will be more crackdowns on speech. What is going on in Britain and Germany is horrible, but I'll add that Trump isn't what people think he is. This idea of deporting citizens who speak out on certain matters, for example, or the crackdown on universities does not bode well for the long trend.
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle


    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 45945
    • Reputation: +27060/-5000
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Grifters
    « Reply #5 on: April 24, 2025, 02:52:28 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • Yeah, I see the grifters out there in full force trying to capitalize on the recent news, and it's gotten to the point of being nauseating.

    I saw Marshall, for instance, spending well OVER HALF of his last show on advertisements, for his books, websites, and various sponsors (healthy greens, gold, liver cleanse, etc.).  He's gotten to almost Alex Jones levels there.

    So, at the very best, when Marshall is judged, God will say to him, for that show and everything you did there, "you've already had your reward" ... and at worst "due to your desire for money, you misled a lot of souls, keeping them entangled in the AntiChurch whereas they may otherwise have broken free from it, and here's your punishment for that."

    Making money off spreading the faith I find repulsive ... unless it's just incidental to your job (e.g. if you are employed legitimately as a teacher at a school, or are employed by a university to write or edit books about the faith, etc.).  It's like simony, where you're selling stuff that should be free for everyone's spiritual benefit.

    I'm so sick of these guys ... and I've been blocked on X by both Marshall and Michael Matt, for some relatively mild comments (nothing like what I've posted here).

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 45945
    • Reputation: +27060/-5000
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Grifters
    « Reply #6 on: April 24, 2025, 03:00:19 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • For example, if you publish Catholic books, you're making and providing books. You are laboring and earning a living by the work of your hands. Priests don't have time to run a book publishing business. Same for altars, artwork, statues, rosaries, Church supplies and equipment, and dozens of other things. If you're MAKING SOMETHING and selling it to Catholics, of course laymen are the 1st choice for doing that. Not just acceptable, but actually the 1st choice.

    Long story short, if you're a layman making money because the Catholic Faith exists, it better be because you're doing something with your mind and/or hands -- some kind of labor. Not just because you're "you", and that you hold some kind of lofty, exalted, respected position, such that people revere the words that fall from your lips -- like a priest.

    Even digital things would qualify as labor: e-book publishing, media collections or conversions, phone apps, software, webhosting, etc. Priests aren't to be spending time keeping up with languages/libraries/trends in the software dev world -- that's a full time job. It's hard enough to stay a useful software developer as a layman doing it for your full-time career. Trying to engage in such constant study to stay up to date would be detrimental for the vocation of a priest or religious.

    Also note that anything "Catholic" laymen made money off of, had to be more or less approved by the Church. Laymen were always under the authority of the Church in this regard. See: Imprimatur, Nihil obstat.

    Yeah, I made a similar distinction with my last post before I saw you articulating it more clearly here.

    I think it's analogous to relics, right?  You can't charge for the relic, but there is some work/expense involved in making the reliquary, preparing things, getting docuмents together, etc.

    Similarly, there can be some remuneration that's proportionate to the amount of work or labor you put into something.

    But sitting up there making $10,000 for BSing for 30 minutes per day, or charging $1,000 per yera for your "St. Thomas Institute" (Marshall), which consistes of a bunch of pre-recorded videos and a bit of access to Marshall on the side by phone/e-mail.  Meanwhile, I linked to that St. Thomas Insitute put on by the (Conciliar) Dominicans that's free (asking for donations) and is extremely well done, AND it's done by men who were trained thoroughly in St. Thomas / Aristotle, not some hack.

    Offline LaramieHirsch

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2736
    • Reputation: +963/-248
    • Gender: Male
      • h
    Re: Grifters
    « Reply #7 on: April 24, 2025, 03:21:44 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Yeah, I made a similar distinction with my last post before I saw you articulating it more clearly here.

    I think it's analogous to relics, right?  You can't charge for the relic, but there is some work/expense involved in making the reliquary, preparing things, getting docuмents together, etc.

    Similarly, there can be some remuneration that's proportionate to the amount of work or labor you put into something.

    But sitting up there making $10,000 for BSing for 30 minutes per day, or charging $1,000 per yera for your "St. Thomas Institute" (Marshall), which consistes of a bunch of pre-recorded videos and a bit of access to Marshall on the side by phone/e-mail.  Meanwhile, I linked to that St. Thomas Insitute put on by the (Conciliar) Dominicans that's free (asking for donations) and is extremely well done, AND it's done by men who were trained thoroughly in St. Thomas / Aristotle, not some hack.

    Yes. Marshall is too much most of the time. I enjoyed listening to him for a while, during the Tim Gordon days, actually. Those were amusing shows. But to have a brand like that, it's just too much. He should've gone into leatherwork or taxidermy for a solid income. 

    Plus, online philosophizing or news analysis is one thing. But as far as instruction and evangelization, isn't that the priest's literal job? His duty? Vocation?  We Americans sure are driven to evangelize; that's for sure.  But then we're in the territory of: "Well, maybe it's fallen on the laity because the priests are so lax." I don't know anymore.
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle


    Offline Geremia

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4622
    • Reputation: +1501/-359
    • Gender: Male
      • St. Isidore e-book library
    Re: Grifters
    « Reply #8 on: April 24, 2025, 03:47:42 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Marshall is essentially a professor. Laymen have been in Catholic universities for centuries.
    St. Isidore e-book library: https://isidore.co

    Offline Geremia

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4622
    • Reputation: +1501/-359
    • Gender: Male
      • St. Isidore e-book library
    Re: Grifters
    « Reply #9 on: April 24, 2025, 03:49:29 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Grifters are a lot like social media "influencers".
    I thought grifters were those profiting off the name recognition of someone higher up in a Ponzi scheme. "Grift" is related to "graft"; they're basically leeches.
    St. Isidore e-book library: https://isidore.co

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 45945
    • Reputation: +27060/-5000
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Grifters
    « Reply #10 on: April 24, 2025, 06:33:27 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Marshall is essentially a professor. Laymen have been in Catholic universities for centuries.

    Meh, not with any degree that would have qualified him to teach CATHOLIC theology at a Catholic University.


    Offline ElwinRansom1970

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 967
    • Reputation: +731/-141
    • Gender: Male
    • γνῶθι σεαυτόν - temet nosce
    Re: Grifters
    « Reply #11 on: April 24, 2025, 07:34:37 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • If you're going to be a priest, working to convert souls, you need to have FULL FREE TIME to pray and study the Faith. It's not just a full time job, it's a 24/7 on-call job. It has to be your job AND YOUR LIFE. Even your free time needs to be spent preparing (praying, studying, thinking) for your next "shift". Not to mention preaching and talking to people, trying to convert souls, visiting the poor, sick, prisoners, etc.

    Matthew, whilst what you write here certainly corresponds to the theology and vision of the priesthood put forward in the Latin Church since the Council of Trent, be aware that this concept of Holy Orders does NOT correspond to pre-Reformation understandings in the Western Church nor with PAST and CURRENT understandings of the priesthood held in the Eastern Churches, both Catholic Churches and the various schismatic Churches.

    Btw, I too find the gifters to be loathesome -- here I am thinking specifically of Trad, Inc. grifters.
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila