Author Topic: Possibly falling into despair depression (Read 15413 times)

trad123 · « **Reply #15 on:** October 08, 2011, 10:10:53 AM »

Quote from: Arborman

"WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." Romans 10:13

For judgment without mercy to him that hath not done mercy. And mercy exalteth itself above judgment. James 2:13

Bishop Williamson in a sermon on you tube clearly indicates that the flood caused many people to be saved because as they were dying they called out to God for mercy.

Very good point! Disregard my previous post.

Anna1959 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 08, 2011, 10:47:54 AM »

To the OP, I will pray for you, I feel God has chosen you for special graces....it is amazing to me that a 22 yr old, raised in the NO, could come to see the light of Tradition and want to cling to it as strongly as you want to! That is a sure sign that God has chosen you!

I discovered the True Faith in 1977 when I was 17...and I remember the "horror days" of the early Traditional mvmt, when NOs told us we were "sinning" and when TLM's were nearly impossibly to find outside of rented motel banquet rooms.

When you look back on your life and how you discovered Tradition, you may as I did, see so many times when God worked miracles in your life to lead you to where you are now. I sometimes wonder, if, when I decided to investigate the Church after relatives had told me what it "used to be like", I had met up with a modernist priest in my local NO parish instead of the diehard traditional priest I met, would my path have been different? (he was firmly trad but stayed with the NO out of a misguided sense of obedience. Nevertheless he was right where he needed to be, for me....and maybe that was Gods plan all along.) I left shortly after receiving instructions, one on one, from him, because I had found a TLM in a local motel room.

I will pray for your family too...another area where God blessed me is that He enabled me to be certain that both my parents went to Heaven.

My father was an unbaptized Jew who in his later years came to believe very strongly that Jesus Christ is the Messiah, and on his deathbed, after discussing the Faith with him, I was able to baptize him (he died a few hours later.)

My mother had been a Catholic before V2, but left. The good Lord arranged it so that she was in hospice care in my house before she died. I was able to call a priest to my home, who gave her the Sacrament of Extreme Unction on Palm Sunday of all days....she had become unconscious by the time Father got here, and I did not learn until later that when an unconscious Catholic receives Extreme Unction, and then dies before regaining consciousness, they go straight to Heaven. God worked the finest details out so perfectly, so I was able to have these comforts.

Looking back, I see the Hand of God in ALL of my life, and it amazes me. I don't understand what I merited to have these graces. I will pray for you, that God will do the same for you. I think He has already begun, however. :)

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #17 on:** October 08, 2011, 11:53:34 AM »

Part of your problem is that you interpret EENS in a Feeneyite/ absolutist way.

It is possible for non-Catholics to be saved not because of their false religion but in spite of it, though that path is perilous and rare.

Your job is to be a good example, pray for these people, and be available to gently nudge them in the direction of truth. Sledgehammer methods of constantly calling them out to their face only builds resentment and they write you off. So sometimes the best course is that less is more.

Salvation is up to God. You can point out objective things they are doing wrong, but the subjective elements are to be judged by God. I'd concentrate on fulfilling your own obligations and leave these people to God's Divine Judgment.

curiouscatholic23 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 08, 2011, 12:14:52 PM »

Quote from: stevusmagnus

Part of your problem is that you interpret EENS in a Feeneyite/ absolutist way.

It is possible for non-Catholics to be saved not because of their false religion but in spite of it, though that path is perilous and rare.

Your job is to be a good example, pray for these people, and be available to gently nudge them in the direction of truth. Sledgehammer methods of constantly calling them out to their face only builds resentment and they write you off. So sometimes the best course is that less is more.

Salvation is up to God. You can point out objective things they are doing wrong, but the subjective elements are to be judged by God. I'd concentrate on fulfilling your own obligations and leave these people to God's Divine Judgment.

Maybe your right about my Feeneyite/absolutist way. The reason I am this way is because I just purchased the MHFM complete $20 package with all their videos and books. One of the books is called "Outside The Catholic Church There is Absolutely No Salvation."

He makes some very interesting points. But yet I have talked to traditonal clergy and they disagree with MFHM so I really do not know who to believe.

Another thing I am really struggling with is NFP. Pius XII said it was ok under certain serious circuмstances, but MHFM argues that is a heretical position and you will go to hell for it.

Im really confused and this is causing me a lot of anxiety.

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #19 on:** October 08, 2011, 12:34:14 PM »

Quote from: Roman Catholic

Quote from: InfiniteFaith
Quote from: Roman Catholic
Quote from: InfiniteFaith

..... I am uncertain of any dogma that preaches there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.

You doubt a dogma of the Church?

Id have to see it for myself before coming to any conclusions.

So you can't state that you adhere with docility to all Dogmas of the Catholic Church?

You must see them all first, to decide for yourself if they are true?

I would have to see something for myself because I don't just take anyones word for it. You could be making a false statement yourself for all i know.

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #20 on:** October 08, 2011, 12:36:43 PM »

Quote from: Arborman

"WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." Romans 10:13

For judgment without mercy to him that hath not done mercy. And mercy exalteth itself above judgment. James 2:13

Bishop Williamson in a sermon on you tube clearly indicates that the flood caused many people to be saved because as they were dying they called out to God for mercy.

What does romans 10:13 mean to you?

Arborman · « **Reply #21 on:** October 08, 2011, 02:15:13 PM »

Quote from: InfiniteFaith

Quote from: Arborman
"WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." Romans 10:13

For judgment without mercy to him that hath not done mercy. And mercy exalteth itself above judgment. James 2:13

Bishop Williamson in a sermon on you tube clearly indicates that the flood caused many people to be saved because as they were dying they called out to God for mercy.

What does romans 10:13 mean to you?

Private message sent

ora pro me · « **Reply #22 on:** October 08, 2011, 03:54:37 PM »

CuriousCatholic,

Do you have a Traditional Catholic priest whom you can talk to about the issues that you bring up here? If you don't currently have one, begin now to find one.

I believe you have mentioned before that you are not living near a Traditional Mass and Sacraments center. If that is correct, could you possibly take this time to travel to an area where you could be close to the Mass and where you could either find a job opr learn some skills that would help you to find employment? I realize that may be a luxury that is beyond your current state, being unemployed, but at least to put some kind of plan into action in that regard.

Also, I discussed this thread with a young man about your age who is a Traditional Catholic and asked him what he would tell you. He suggested that I ask you if you know about http://tradcircle.ning.com/ He tells me that there are lots of young Tradtional Catholics there who may be able to either give you some advice with what you're dealing with, or at least you could find some other young Traditional Catholic folks for some good friendship.

Lastly, but rather this is always first: Pray your Rosary every day and never skip your 3 Hail Marys every morning and every night. Read True Devotion to Jesus through Mary by St. Louis Marie de Montfort, and grow in your devotion to your heavenly Mother. Pray to her often for the grace of perseverance in the Faith.

God bless you.

Sigismund · « **Reply #23 on:** October 08, 2011, 06:06:34 PM »

Quote from: stevusmagnus

Part of your problem is that you interpret EENS in a Feeneyite/ absolutist way.

It is possible for non-Catholics to be saved not because of their false religion but in spite of it, though that path is perilous and rare.

Your job is to be a good example, pray for these people, and be available to gently nudge them in the direction of truth. Sledgehammer methods of constantly calling them out to their face only builds resentment and they write you off. So sometimes the best course is that less is more.

Salvation is up to God. You can point out objective things they are doing wrong, but the subjective elements are to be judged by God. I'd concentrate on fulfilling your own obligations and leave these people to God's Divine Judgment.

Exactly!

Stubborn · « **Reply #24 on:** October 09, 2011, 07:52:00 AM »

Quote from: curiouscatholic23

I once posted this question on fisheaters once and everybody laughed at me but its really serious.

My religion is starting to distance me more from my family and "friends." For example, not eating meat on Fridays, is something a lot of my family and friends find unusual.

Yes, as a faithful Catholic, it is a sad occurrence that you'll soon find that you have less and less in common with friends and family - your interests are unique or weird and they have no interest whatsoever in what is important to you, as such, becoming distant, even disowning them because of the faith is often necessary. That's just the way it is.

Mat. 10:36 And a man's enemies shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me, is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me, is not worthy of me

Luke 12:51Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation. For there shall be from henceforth five in one house divided: three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against his father, the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother, the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

As for the No Salvation dogma, concern yourself with your own salvation - be very, very selfish in this regard and do whatever it is you need to do for *you* to persevere till the end. Beyond that, there is only so much you can do, mostly pray and do penance for the conversion of poor sinners, that's what Our blessed Mother told us to do. Almost 100 years ago Our Lady showed souls falling into hell like snow flakes in a blizzard to the Fatima children - for me the most difficult part of that to accept is that they all chose their eternity, yet I accept that because that's how it is.

If you discover that you have a calling to be a priest, God's will be done! Other than that, we must be prudent. As lay folk, we should not be telling anyone they will go to hell - we can say they commit mortal sin by contraception, carousing etc - but even then, there is a time and a place for everything and one must be prudent in their dealings with others.

As for MHFM, be very cautious there. They have some good stuff, same as some NOers - Michael Voris comes to mind - but IMO, finding a good trad priest for your spiritual adviser will be a huge source of consolation - seek one out.

pat · « **Reply #25 on:** October 09, 2011, 09:51:08 PM »

Quote from: Sigismund

Quote from: stevusmagnus
Part of your problem is that you interpret EENS in a Feeneyite/ absolutist way.

It is possible for non-Catholics to be saved not because of their false religion but in spite of it, though that path is perilous and rare.

Your job is to be a good example, pray for these people, and be available to gently nudge them in the direction of truth. Sledgehammer methods of constantly calling them out to their face only builds resentment and they write you off. So sometimes the best course is that less is more.

Salvation is up to God. You can point out objective things they are doing wrong, but the subjective elements are to be judged by God. I'd concentrate on fulfilling your own obligations and leave these people to God's Divine Judgment.

Exactly!

I second that exactly! :)

ServantOfTheAlmighty · « **Reply #26 on:** October 10, 2011, 01:18:03 PM »

Quote from: stevusmagnus

Part of your problem is that you interpret EENS in a Feeneyite/ absolutist way.

It is possible for non-Catholics to be saved not because of their false religion but in spite of it, though that path is perilous and rare.

Your job is to be a good example, pray for these people, and be available to gently nudge them in the direction of truth. Sledgehammer methods of constantly calling them out to their face only builds resentment and they write you off. So sometimes the best course is that less is more.

Salvation is up to God. You can point out objective things they are doing wrong, but the subjective elements are to be judged by God. I'd concentrate on fulfilling your own obligations and leave these people to God's Divine Judgment.

This is a blatant heresy, one that is the root of the current apostasy.

I'm surprised that no one is speaking up against this post.

Raoul76 · « **Reply #27 on:** October 10, 2011, 07:37:46 PM »

Probably because everyone knows what he means. The "non-Catholics" he refers to are Catholics by desire.

Stubborn · « **Reply #28 on:** October 11, 2011, 06:16:16 AM »

Quote from: ServantOfTheAlmighty

Quote from: stevusmagnus
Part of your problem is that you interpret EENS in a Feeneyite/ absolutist way.

It is possible for non-Catholics to be saved not because of their false religion but in spite of it, though that path is perilous and rare.

Your job is to be a good example, pray for these people, and be available to gently nudge them in the direction of truth. Sledgehammer methods of constantly calling them out to their face only builds resentment and they write you off. So sometimes the best course is that less is more.

Salvation is up to God. You can point out objective things they are doing wrong, but the subjective elements are to be judged by God. I'd concentrate on fulfilling your own obligations and leave these people to God's Divine Judgment.

This is a blatant heresy, one that is the root of the current apostasy.

I'm surprised that no one is speaking up against this post.

I completely agree with you but anymore it's a waste of time and energy arguing it when almost everyone believes that heresy to be a dogma.

Quite amazing when you stop to think about that.

rowsofvoices9 · « **Reply #29 on:** October 14, 2011, 12:33:30 AM »

Quote from: Arborman

"WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." Romans 10:13

For judgment without mercy to him that hath not done mercy. And mercy exalteth itself above judgment. James 2:13

Bishop Williamson in a sermon on you tube clearly indicates that the flood caused many people to be saved because as they were dying they called out to God for mercy.

This perfectly agrees with Haydock's commentary on 1 Peter 1:19,20

19 In which also coming he preached to those spirits that were in prison:
20 Which had been some time incredulous, when they waited for the patience of God in the days of Noe, when the ark was a building: wherein a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water.

In which (to wit, soul or spirit) also he came, and preached to those spirits who were in prison. The true and common interpretation of this place seems to be, that the soul of Christ, after the separation from the body and before the resurrection, descended to a place in the interior parts of the earth, called hell in that which we call the apostles' creed, (sometimes called Abraham's bosom, sometimes Limbus Patrum, a place where were detained all the souls of the patriarchs, prophets, and just men, as it were in prison) and preached to these spirits in this prison; i.e. brought them this happy news, that he who was their Redeemer was now come to be their deliverer, and that at his glorious ascension they should enter with him into heaven, where none could enter before our Redeemer, who opened as it were heaven's gates. Among these were many who had been formerly at first incredulous in the time of Noe, who would not take warning from his preparing and building the ark, but it may be reasonably supposed that many of them repented of their sins when they saw the danger approaching, and before they perished by the waters of the deluge, so that they died at least not guilty of eternal damnation; because, though they were sinners, yet they worshipped the true God, for we do not find any proofs of idolatry before the deluge. These then, and all the souls of the just, Christ descended to free from their captivity, from their prison, and to lead them at his ascension triumphant with him into heaven.